North Country Race Talk

Assuming that we will be running a Super Stock Class at the Mills I would like to start throwing some ideas around to help Lloyd and the boys write the rules. Everyone knows that the first thing everyone whines about and blames people for cheating with is engines. To eliminate this couldnt you:

Compression Rule, OEM block, Heads, Intake (aftermarket w/ weight penalty), 4412 carb, Cubic Inch rule

Let these guys build what they want/have laying around (obviously some other rules involved like steel pan, oem weight crank, etc.) and keep it simple.

EVERY NIGHT you tech top 3 compression, cubic inch, visually inspect intake, and check carb also one random pill drawn to be teched. Now, if anyone is cheating they will be caught. These three items are easy to tech, not strenuously time consuming and cost the driver NOTHING. I feel this would eliminate the constant whine about not enough tech, illegal engine, etc.

Just some ideas
Thanks
Mike

Mike,
A real strong push by Steve10 is to do away with the Ford engine package alltogether. Since we're not fishing and thus need no boat anchors I have to agree with him.

Randy,

I’ve been a good patient at the institution. They not only let me out, they gave me back my crayons, too!!! I’m so excited, if I continue to behave myself maybe they’ll let me come up to Evans Mills again this weekend. Of course, I’ll need supervision and my happy pills! (Where’s Josh with his nitrous bottle when I need him?)

Seriously, thank you and Ben for taking this bull by the horns. Keep up the good work.

I like the fishing with a Ford idea! (Mike & Tommy are going to hate us!!!!)

Steve Burton

Mike,

I really hate to admit it, (must be that electro-shock therapy is mellowing me) but I actually agree with you! Don't get use to it though!

Steve Burton

I agree keep it simple and inexpensive as possible I know nothings cheap in this sport but we have to keep it reasonable.

I think keep it 10:1

be specific on the crank rule, we can't say oem spec and then say must way at least 48 lbs. when a stock gm crank is 53 lbs... not sure what fords weigh stock?

Stock clutches and flywheels. really stock not light weight ones that look stock,

torque converters must be specific size?

rim off sets..

as far as TECH it should go by points also not just where the car finished that night

Defintely cap the tire purchases to keep the cost down for us poor people and keeps everyone on a level playing field.

Just some thoughts
Josh Dunn #4 TA SS

Steve,
I'll run dwn to CJ logging and get the bottle filled for this weekend .....no worries

Josh,
Good man! I knew I could count on you buddy. Hey get two. We can put them in the cars and drive them around the track this weekend. I think Randy said no "Racecars", if anybody has watched us race, they know we don't drive racecars!!!!

Steve Burton, TA SS #10

Steve
I'll get NOS and you bring the horse tranqualizers!!

couple of things that are fact: they wont remove cranks on a nightly basis to weigh them , they wont remove flywheels and clutches and weigh them on a nightly basis either so why make a rule.........

Jason,
Not that we’ll have any say in the rules, but you gave me an idea. If the goal is to make tech easy and unequivocal, how about this:

Tools required: Scales, whistler, ohm meter, tape measure, magnet, and a tire durometer.

Super Stock Specifications: (fill in the blanks with an agreed upon number.)
Minimum body weight is _____ for 8 cylinder and _____ for 6 cylinder cars.
Maximum left side weight is _____ %.
Minimim ground clearance is _____ inches.
Maximum spoiler height is _____ inches, maximum width is ______.
Minimum roof height is _____ inches.
Maximum ___ inch x ___ inch rub rails.
Minimum wheelbase length is _____ inches
Maximum wheelbase width is _____ inches.
Minimum tire durometer reading of _____.
MSD Rev Limiter P/N 87286 with ____ RPM chip required.
Stock Holley 4412 carburetor required.
Maximum exhaust pipe diameter is _____ inches.
CID maximums
Chevy = ____ cu.in. +0.060
Ford = ____ cu. in. +0.060
Chrysler= ____ cu. in. 0.030
Aluminum intakes allowed with _____ lb. penalty.
No aftermarket transmissions.
Steel single disk clutches/flywheels/flexplate required.
Minimum ____ inch clutch diameter.
Minimum ____ inch torque converter.
Minimum ____ inch inspection hole in bellhousing. Steel bellhousing required.

I’m just thinking out loud and this requires a lot more thought, but the beauty of the idea is the simplicity. Obviously we need to require all the safety equipment.

I’m thinking, between the carb, exhaust pipe diameter, and rev limiter you’ve minimized any advantage teams could have spending big money on cheating the motors up. The rest just evens the chassis/body playing field.

What does everyone think?
Steve Burton

If we have any input on the rules I think a 57% left side max would be very helpful in the corners at the mills, creating more side by side racing in the corners, as anyone knows who has raced the mills on asphalt it is very hard to get your car to handle on the outside in the corner

Just a little comment about doing all of this tech every race night. It takes time to do all of that tech on just one class. From what I have seen you guys are wanting like 5-6 classes to be run. What happens to the tech on the rest of the classes? As most of you noticed during my stay at AIS it was very difficult to do any amount of in depth tech on one class and keep up with just scaling the other classes.

This is just a thought to be considered when thinking about tech.

Rob Oliver

Here is a set of rules from a track in Michigan, These are more set towards a sportsman type car on a 3/8 to 1/2 mile track.
we pretty much had these rules before but without a few minor details


2010 Pro Stock/Sportsman Rules
This class is a modification step above the street stock class. Its intent is to remain an economy style class with a little more creative freedom in building your own car instead of purchasing a manufactured chassis. It will remain a class for full frame/unitized body cars. Any item of questionable nature should not be assumed legal, said items should be approved by OWS/DMS officials prior to event. The race director/head tech shall be empowered to permit minor deviation,impose any further restrictions that in their opinion do not alter the minimum acceptable requirements. NO EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED WARRANTY OF SAFETY SHALL RESULT FROM SUCH ALTERATION OR SPECIFICATIONS. Any interpretation or deviation of these rules is left to the discretion of an OWS/DMS officials. Their decision is FINAL.DEFINITION: The word "Stock" will mean unaltered and as originally produced. OEM equipment only unless otherwise noted. Subject to track approval. A. CAR CONSTRUCTION: a) Any U.S. manufactured passenger car or truck body (On car chassis only!) No convertibles, 4-wheel drive or subcompact cars .b) Minimum of 101" wheel base c) All body panels must be near stock in appearance, and contour of replaced panels. This class is designed to be a step up from factory stocks without being full blown aftermarket race chassis construction. It is not intended in any way to replace the Pro Late Model division. A Camaro clip tube rear car will retain stock stamping factory frame rails to centerline of rear axle or will be a leaf spring configuration with leaf spring mounting in stock location to be eligible in this division. B. BODIES: a) Performance or Five-Star bodies are allowed. Fabricated bodies are allowed. No wedge shaped body's, stock appearing roof & b pillars only! No wrap around windows or tear drop style back windows. Fenders and quarter panels may be aluminum, fiberglass, or steel. Must be stock appearing! Deck lid, tail panel, and hood may be aluminum. Air cleaner cannot protrude exposed thru hood, must be covered with either hood or scoop. b) Intermixing of stock oem manufactured components is allowed. c) Stock type nose only, must be complete. No MD3 type dirt noses. Tail light panel must be complete from bumper to trunk lid and sealed (no flow thru). Deck lid will be accessible 12" and width of body. Truck beds must be covered in steel/aluminum and sit level. No truck bed designed to act as spoiler permitted. Fuel cell must be accessible 24"x 32" hatch required if you have a truck deck . d) 6 inch height spoiler is allowed. 72 width max. No rudders(side boards), or jacked up decks. Side Skirting must not interfere with ride height gauge. Must have stock appearing bumpers in stock location, round or square tube bumpers must be covered. Aluminum bumpers ok. No sharp edges. If it can cut a tire, it can't compete! e) A 4-post roll cage is mandatory! Cage must have 3 left side horizontal bars and 2 left side vertical bars that connect horizontal bars down to frame rail. Must also have 2 right side horizontal bars and at least 1 vertical bar that connects horizontal bars to right side of frame rail. Roll cage must be no less than 1 3/4" tubing, .095 wall thickness for entire roll cage (May be randomly checked!) No black iron pipe, no galvanized pipe. Driver side of car must have an 1/8"steel plate that extends from left front cage post to left rear cage post and from top horizontal door bar down to frame rail this is mandatory! Must be welded to frame and cage bars. All welding must be done in a professional like manner subject to approval. SAFETY, SAFETY,SAFETY! f) Radiators: Any type may be used providing it does not alter the hood or body sheet metal. All radiators must be in front of the engine and must not protrude through the hood. Radiator reinforcement must be behind grill. Overflow hose must exit onto right side windshield base. NO ANTIFREEZE! A FINE AND/ OR SUSPENSION IF CAUGHT! . g) A steel firewall must be sealed from engine compartment. A steel floor pan must extend to the rear roll cage,. Minimum 20 gauge steel. Rear firewall must be all steel and sealed from trunk area. ALL firewalls and patches must be made from a minimum 20-gauge steel NO Coffin interiors (Passenger side) must taper down to driveshaft tunnel from passenger door. Everything must be sealed. No mirrors. h) All added weight must be painted white and approved mounting. 1/2" bolt. i) All glass except windshield, must be removed from car. Lexan may be used in place of windshield. Windshields MANDATORY. j) Driver side floor pan must be covered or replaced with 1/8 thick steel plate. Front cage post to rear cage post must be welded, or bolted in . Minimum width of drivers seat mandatory! k) ONE DRIVE SHAFT hoop on the front 1/3 of DRIVE SHAFT. DRIVE SHAFT must be painted white. NO ALUMINUM OR CARBON FIBER. l) Any car not meeting these requirements will be subject to weight penalties at the discretion of the officials. m) Front and rear tow hooks must be secured to bumper or frame. Chain loop must be large enough to accommodate wrecker hook. Must be adequate for car weight. No portion of body or chassis may be lower than 4". C. BATTERY: a) Must NOT be located in the driver's compartment. b) One 12-volt battery only,(checked randomly) Covers recommended. c) Battery Disconnect will be located to the right side of driver, accessible to driver and safety crew and clearly marked ON-OFF. d) Battery must be securely mounted in car, NO BUNGEE STRAPS. D. BRAKES: a) Must have four (4) wheel brakes and all four (4) wheels operating at all times b) Interchanging stock parts allowed. c) Made for racing dual master cylinders and pedals allowed. No brake shut off valves. No anti-lock brakes. d) Adjustable prop valves (brake bias) OK. Front to rear only. e) Stock type steel calipers, single piston only. f) No traction devices. Hydraulic or electronic. No wheel speed sensors. E. CARBURETOR: a) One 2-barrel Holley only. Manufacturers #4412 unaltered, except for removal of choke horn,choke shaft, and butterfly. Must have circular shaped stock venturies. No grinding or thinning of throttle shaft's ,plates, or screws. No exceptions. b) A maximum, 1" thick carburetor adaptor plate, must be removable from carburetor for inspection. c) NO opening in intake manifold to atmosphere other than carburetor, No opening in carburetor to atmosphere other than its inlet. Carbs leaking vacuum to outside atmosphere upon simple spray test will be further inspected for modification. If alterations have occurred MANDATORY DQ. d.)must fit track gauges no exceptions. F. DIFFERENTIAL:a) Rear ends must be stock or may be welded. 9" or floaters allowed. Must have stock suspension mounts for make of chassis and suspension links. heim's or tubular arms allowed but with weight penalty. No aluminum center section, steel hubs and rotors only! b) Trailing arms may be relocated on axle. G. ENGINE AND WEIGHT: a) Stock engines. Any stock passenger car casting blocks. b) Cast iron straight plug or angle heads allowed. c) No grinding or altering casting number on heads or blocks. d) Edelbrock aluminum intake only. Approved numbers: 2101, 2116, 2121, 2176, and 2181,2665,2750. No alterations to intake of any kind. No adapter or spacers plates between intake and cylinder heads allowed. Intake must bolt directly to cylinder head. e) Roller rockers allowed, no shaft type systems. Stud girdles allowed. No roller cams or lifters. no mushroom lifters. f) Stock type ignition only, 12-volt system. No amplifiers, no external ignition box, no electronic or manual operated timing devices. No circuit boards. Any STOCK type 4 pin sealed module allowed. g) Starters must be in working order at all times. h) 3200 lbs. 360 CI maximum. 3300 lbs. 361 to 390 CI maximum. 3400 lbs. Over 391 CI All weights will be post race. No exceptions and No tolerance. All weights are with driver in car. Remember!! The track scales are the official scales. i) Cars with a wheelbase of 111" or less, add 50 lbs. Cars with 3 links add 50 lbs, cars with 180 or over the top headers add 50 lbs. Cars with porting work done add 100lbs. j) Maximum 55.0% left side weight. k) Maximum rear weight 50.0%. l) OWS officials will adjust the weight of cars to even competition if necessary. m) ENGINE LOCATION: Forward most spark plug hole in line or ahead of the upper ball joint checked on driver's side. + or - 1". n.) UPON FILLING OUT DRIVERS REGISTRATION YOU MUST CLAIM YOUR MODIFICATIONS AND BE LABELED WITH YOUR WEIGHT FOR TECH. YOUR WEIGHT MUST BE DISPLAYED ON OWOSSO/DIXIE MOTOR SPEEDWAY INSPECTION STICKER TO BE PLACED IN THE UPPER RT HAND CORNER OF WINDSHIELD. FOR EXAMPLE A 108" CAR WITH 383 MOTOR AND AFTERMARKET 3 LINK SUSPENSION MODS WOULD CLAIM 3200LBS + 50LBS FOR WHEEL BASE + 50LBS FOR 3 LINK PLUS 100LBS FOR THE 383 TOTALLING 3400LBS. IT MUST BE DISPLAYED ON WINDOW STICKER TO PASS TECH. TECH INSPECTION RESULTING IN IMPROPER WEIGHT WILL RESULT IN DQ FOR EVENT. 2011 Over 360 will be illegal. We are putting this notice in so you can use up your stuff. it is not our economic advisement to build an over cubic inch motor. 12.5 maximum compression for 2010. compression motor over 10.5 add 50lbs. - 2011 will be 10.5 max. Porting +100lbs. H. EXHAUST: a) drop headers allowed. Step headers or 180 degree headers allowed WITH 50 LB PENALTY. Must be 1 5/8" tube from flange to collector( 3" max.) Max. 2 1/2" exhaust pipe (Min. 24")allowed from manifold/header collector to muffler adaptor. b) Exhaust must all exit under engine to the rear of driver's compartment and under car only. No side discharge. c) Exhaust will be securely mounted with hangers. d) Working Mufflers are mandatory. Must meet 100 DB at track side. Due to outside forces this will be regulated strict. e) Mandatory under car exhaust - exiting under car. I. FRAME: a) Full frames may be shortened to 101" minimum. Tube tail-sections are allowed from the centerline of the rear end to the rear bumper. Front and rear clip mixing allowed. Must retain stock frame rails and connection points No off-set subs front or rear. No exotic frame modifications. Any frame plating or tubing attached below stock frame rails will be considered the frame. b) Unibody frames must retain stock frame rails and suspension mounts or be grafted on a conventional full frame. Some plating of stock frame rails allowed. No tubular frames, no aluminum frames or subs. c) All frames may be notched for fuel pump clearance, exhaust clearance, and oil pan (Rear sump clearance only). d) Any car not meeting these requirements will be subject to weight penalties at the discretion of the officials. e) Camaro clip cars must retain leaf rear suspension at stock mounting location or complete factory O.E.M> frame rails to centerline of rear axle. J. FUEL SYSTEM: a) Pump or Racing Gasoline only. b) No Nitrous Oxide systems allowed. c) Fuel cells mandatory; must have a steel container. d) No fuel lines or Transmission lines in the driver's compartment. e) Gas caps secured by means of chain to the car. f) Must have fuel cell guard made of 1 3/4" .095 wall thickness tubing. Welded between rear frame rail and must extend down to bottom of cell. g) 8" minimum fuel cell height at lowest point. M. SUSPENSIONS-FRONT AND REAR: a) tubular uppers will be allowed b) No cutting, bending, heating, welding, or modifying of any front suspension or steering components. Must be STOCK (Refer to definition) c) Stock components only! Interchanging of stock components allowed. No aluminum parts. No rack and pinions. No aluminum spindles or control arms..Steel Heim Tie Rod Ends Allowed and adjustable center links allowed. No investment casting spindles. No tubular or hollow spindles. d) Stock steel type shock (PRO, AFCO, CARRERA, or QA1) . Welded end, economy style shocks or stock type mount only- No aluminum shocks at all allowed. NO external reservoir. NO PENSKE, NO REVALVABLE BILSTEIN,NO OHLINS. The shock rule is pretty straight forward. NO EXOTIC or HI DOLLAR shocks in this class. If you have something non economy call or ask first before coming to the track with it on your car. e) No tubular or 3 piece splined sway bars, stock OEM style sway bars only. Mounting must clear your steering appropriately. No mounts that could interfere with tie rods or clamps. f) Front springs must be in stock location and have same type of mounting as OEM 4" minimum spring diameter. Screw cups allowed, Jack bolts allowed. No driver operated jacking devices. g) Minimum 4.0" ride height. Nothing below 4 " NO EXCEPTIONS h)Trailing arm mounts on housing only may be moved. i) 3 or 4 link rear end setups will be allowed. Simple steel 3 link is allowed. Factory 3 and 4 link and track bars allowed. No aluminum, no biscuits, no spring loaded link componenets. 3 link , jbar, panhard bar add 50 lbs. j) Any car not meeting these requirements will be subject to weight penalties at the discretion of the officials.- NO EXCEPTIONSk) 80" inch maximum tread width measured at spindle height tire sidewall. k) No coil over or coil over eliminator components period! N. TIRES/WHEELS: a) Hoosier 970 ONLY NO EXCEPTIONS PERIOD b) No tire softening agents allowed or other foreign matter. c) Checked by dyrometer reading and /or "sniffer" (Randomly checked) d) Steel wheels max. 8" wide only (Randomly checked) e) Right front wheel must be safety wheel. 1" lug nuts. f) 5/8 wheel studs mandatory with exposed thread past lugnut. O. TRANSMISSIONS: a) Automatic or Manual (O.E.M.) transmissions allowed.. NO MADE FOR RACING TRANSMISSIONS ALLOWED! (Such as Bert, Brinn, Falcon, Jericho, etc.) Must have external clutch if running a manual transmission. If you run a stock clutch with a stock flywheel, you must have steel scatter shield. b) Min. two (2) forward gears low and high, and a working reverse! c) CONVERTER SHELL MINIMUM REQUIRED. d) Transmission coolers must not be in drivers compartment. Overflow must be vented into can and NOT be mounted in drivers compartment. P. APPROVED MODIFICATIONS: a) A shock adaptor up to 1" top or bottom front and or rear may be added to accommodate ride height rule. b) Front UPPER control arm mount ONLY may be moved inward and or outward from stock position. c) Rear spring pockets may be altered 2" upward only. Deviations from these rules will be subject to weight penalties at the discretion of the officials. Rear frame cross member may be modified, however spring pockets must retain same general design and general location THIS CLASS IS SPECIFICALLY INTENDED FOR MODIFICATION OF A STOCK TYPE CHASSIS. YOU MUST RETAIN YOUR FULL FRAME RAILS TO REAR AXLE CENTERLINE. LIMITED LATE MODEL CHASSIS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED. (I.E Howe, port city, left hander tube design rear with no original factory component.)IF IT DOESN'T SAY YOU CAN DO IT IN ANY OF THESE RULES, YOU CAN'T

Wow until just a few minutes ago I found out that this forum was still alive!! I also just found out today that AIS has shut it's doors for next year. And even better news, actually the best news I've heard in a long time "Evans Mills to Asphalt". I guess I've been living under a rock for a few months. I have a nice super stock sitting in my garage that I recently traveled to Michigan to pick up. After I read the news about AIS today my heart sank because I would be left without a track to race at!
I've read several other tracks rulebooks including mountain, shangra la 2,Airborne, Spencer, Lake Erie, Mahoning Valley. Not to make anyone upset but all of these rules were way off and I almost had to stop reading them.If you're going to have a superstock class you can't restrict the racer so much for example- telling them what type of air cleaner housing to run, or no powerglides (just 350 turbo or saginaw manual) or overly strict on steering components which are getting very hard to find for a true old super stock, just to name a few.

I have a few suggestions for superstock rules

hoosier 970 tire
8 inch rims various offsets
aftermarket clutches with saginaw trans
powerglide or 350 t with working torque converter
maximum track width?
ford 9 inch no penalty (no gun drilled axles or aluminum components) floaters ok
aftermarket intake to be specified by track Gm edelbrock #2101 or #2116 with 1" adapter for box stock 4412( no weight penalty) for a $120 dollar intake ----get rid of the boat anchors
no cockpitted interiors maintain "stock appearing" firewall/floorboard to rear of main hoop
*10.5:1 max compression ratio
4 or 5 inch ride height
allow brake bias valves and aftermarket pedals
allow howe stock replacement centerlinks http://howeracing.com/c-439-stock-type-steering.aspx
cast iron calipers and spindles only
aftermarket tubular upper control arms with stock type shocks

most importantly allow the 8602 staurday night special crate motor WITH A FOUR BARREL CARB WHICH IT WAS DESIGNED FOR DON'T COPY SHANGRA LA OR ANY OF THESE OTHER TRACKS LIKE AIS HAS DONE BEFORE..

now with this being said if you want a super restrictive class run something called the pure stocks or lead sleds they can't change anything not even the springs and they run radials and stock everything like a junkyard dog class.

The super stocks could be a huge addition to your program especially if an equal, fair, and more updated set of rules for the current time is enforced

First of all...Ford engines are blue, I have never seen a blue boat anchor. Most people paint them a bright color like ORANGE so they can be spotted easily.!

Anyway, yes Rob it takes time but cubing, carb, and comp would go smooth as hell after the first couple weeks and every once in a while we could skip one or the other. We would just expect that we should be ready to do all 3.

Jason you are 100% correct but scatterproof bellhousings which should be required for safety have a large enough hole that we should be able to look in there and see that it is not a lightweight triple disk clutch/ ram coupler/ or some wild torque converter.

Josh, i am agreeably disagreeing with you....I have run OEM cranks since i started (including 09) and blown up AT LEAST 1 engine a year. They cant take it. Better cranks = less oil on the tracks. If you throw a weight rule in for the cranks, sure it will not be checked weekly but if for some unforseen reason someone feels that someone is cheating and puts the $$ up at least the rule is in place in case someone has a lightweight knife edged crank.

Steve, Glad we can agree on something... Now i will start working on getting your distributor in the right spot.

Randy, I cant think of anything too bad for you other than the fact that your wife AND sister think i'm good looking. God Life is good!!!!

Until the next time'
Mike