North Country Race Talk

Lets talk about something other than decisions that were made 4 weeks ago.

How about the rule book. What kind of rule changes are we looking at for next year? The sooner we know the sooner we can build. Lets get specific with them and eliminate grey areas in the rules we have. How soon can we expect some updates to the rules online? Rob, I remember you saying you would go through them as soon as the season ended, hows your progress so far? Maybe we could use this opportunity to help us get past some road blocks that some of us may have run into this season. Handicapping, cold air intakes, jumping the start, a more family friendly schedule (a week off once in a while), and overcompetitive cars are just a few things we could discuss. What are everyone's thoughts?

I would be happy to participate in re-writing the SS/LT/SC rule books. We have had several individuals re-write the rules (to make them easier to read...) since I last had written them (in 2006). I think in those years the rules became less definite. I have every rule book (in all their various iterations) we have created since 1998.

Keep Warm,
John

I have heard talk about a cam lift rule for the super stock class, I for one disagree with a lift rule ! if the class was a street stock or true stock as it was it would make sense but for a super stock class I dont agree. if building a legal motor for this class the cam is really our only form of upgrades. could the SS drivers post there opinions on this matter for Rob to see ?

Im against a lift rule, we can only get so much air through a 500cfm carb anyway, just enforce the rules we have, as far as rewriting the rules.... that was the intention last year when rules comittee, as soon as the first meeting was over so was the rules comittee

Yes I am diligently working on the rules when I get time between my many other things I am working on..... My work schedule doesn't allow me much time to do much during the week. Really only have weekends to do any major work for myself.
Fisiks could you email me the rulebooks you have?

Ben,

You deserve a pat on the back for that idea. I agree, let’s be productive.

As far as the rules go – my suggestion would be to contact Paul and Rob first. If we have their approval, let’s pull the rules apart one by one on this forum, discuss them, and revise/edit them so we clear up any grey areas. Let’s not spin our wheels uselessly like last year. For those areas no one can agree on (remember the aluminum intake issue last year) let's not let it hold up the process. Let Paul and Rob call it and we’ll have to live with it. I would also suggest we start a separate thread for each class’s rules, and maybe Billy can monitor these and move any posts trying to hijack the thread. Again, count me in to help in any way. I also think your Dad’s idea of a Rule's Committee for interpretation is excellent. It did exactly what it was suppose to do at the last points race. Unfortunately it was overridden.

Specifics –
Rule timing – Let’s get them ASAP so we can get working on our cars.
Handicapping – I say just draw positions at the pit gate. For me, the handicap system used has never made mathematical sense anyway.
Cold air intakes – I don’t really care.
Jumping the start – First, I like it when the leader fires at the line for any start. I think there was far less checking up and banging bumpers and it makes turn one a smoother transition. In my opinion, anyone out of line before the starter fires at the line should be black flagged and sent to the rear (Tell them over the radio exactly what car they need to get their nose behind!). Don’t throw a caution – why stop the race for something we all know we shouldn’t do? Throw the bum to the back! (LOL) Once the starter fires at the line, pull out and pass all you want, but not before. All this should make it easier for the flagman to see any infractions and react accordingly, instead of trying to do 10 things in an instant.
Week off every once in a while – That is interesting. From a business owners perspective, I’d want the facility open as often as it can be considering the cancellations due to weather. As a family man, I know my family would like a few weekends of my time during the summer. But practically, no matter what “OFF” weekend the track scheduled, there’s no way they could coincide with every teams life. I don’t know if this idea would work but…..how about we drop the lowest point week (or two) for each team based on the total number of races run. For instance, we ran 12 races this season. Base the championship on the each teams top 10 races. This way, the track is open for the twelve races, the stands are packed for 12 races (OK-I’m stretching it here), and the poor slob that had a graduation, wedding, or lobotomy doesn’t get hammered in points for keeping his family happy. I don’t think the folks who can race the full schedule should mind because we’re dropping their lowest weekly points. It would certainly take the pressure off the family folks. Probably needs more thought - just thinking out-loud.
Overly competitive cars – boy that’s a tough one. I think I read in another tracks rules if a car won three features – it was subject to complete tear down. But, we need definitive rules, not loop-hole ridden facsimiles.

Those are my thoughts. Interested in how everyone else feels.

John – It would be great if you’d help with this rules project.
Gunner – I don’t think we need a cam rule either. I agree with Scott, the carb is the limiting factor.
Rob – Sounds like you’ve got some willing souls here to help ease your workload – want help?


Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

just my opinion but if your rewriting the rules yet again the more you restrict them the more expensive it is.... look at imca modified class rules for example they call it the most affordable and it IS the largest and most popular class anywhere ,and their rules are very open.basically what i am saying is performance parts are way cheaper than "stock appearing" performance parts that might barely squeeze into the rules and being racers we all know the kinds of things i am refering too. and please dont change the tires again as the last times a alot of cars stayed home cause they didnt want to buy more tires, there are now an abundance of 890S around there is talk about another tire change and we really dont need a different tire .after alot of thought a "legal" sealed crate should get a weight break although i was against it last year i didnt expect it to be a 2 car show this year either but it was extreemly competitive for 3rd place on back

I also think we should get more time off, dont close the track down ,start season a few weeks earlier like most other tracks go a couple weeks longer into september , add another class of cars and every week one class gets the night off and that way every class gets a week off a month or something like that .oswego ran us super stocks one summer every other week and as a racer i loved it i had time to do other things during the summer instead of race race race race race race....

Drop the lowest points race? thats a brilliant idea, it would let us take a week off of our choosing boy Steve you are smarter than you look!!

I agree with dropping a points race. in snocross we where able to choose which race we would drop but of course everyone droppped the lowest anyway. weekend off here and there to do the family thing or upset the wife and try another track for the fun of it, sure. as for the tires - I used the tires from shangra-la II speedway for the last race and loved the way the car handled with them. I do have several 890 spares around but they are not competative after 3 - races anyway so if we change tires im ok with it. (sorry jason) just my 2 - cents worth anything or not !

Jason,

I don’t think I quite understand the “more restrictive, the more expensive” thoughts. Can you give me an example?

I didn’t hear any complaining about the 890’s we ran this year. I made it through the season (races and practices) on only two sets of tires. I thought most folks thought the 890’s held up pretty well – so I think any idea to change tires is unnecessary.

I agree it was extremely competitive from 3rd place back. I think if we tighten up the rules and maybe have that “three win = tear down” clause, we can eliminate the 2 car race scenario. That might even eliminate the need for a crate motor weight break if that materializes. (Can you believe it Jason – we both reversed course!) Interestingly they finished 8, 9, and 10 with only 16 points separating them!

I like your idea of opening sooner and closing later. And if Scott thinks that dropping the lowest points race is brilliant – and it makes me smarter than I look, the rule should be definite a add in! Thanks for the compliment (I think) Scott!

Gunner – sorry but I read your post fast and thought you said you’d have fun upsetting your wife ….OK, upset the wife BY HAVING fun at a new track…I get it! About that smarter than I look thing?

Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

Steve, I knew that would have you scratching your head!I think what jay is trying to say is if you have the money you can buy a illegal part that will fit the rules....."stock appearing" but not really stock and you cant tell by just looking at the part ,and it usually cost more than a racing part, its crazy to do this to win on a good night maybe $200.00,when you can buy the comparable aftermarket part if the rules were a little more open for alot less. These cars are no longer by any means true stock cars, with the rules that were changed over the last couple of years the cars are more competitive and ALOT SAFER than they used to be.Maybe we should all get together and get on the same page on next years rules and present it to the powers that be and see what shakes out? Just my opinion ...Scott

Scott,

Thanks for the insight. Rules that promote safety are always hard to argue with. Hopefully we all can help get a set of rules that avoids all the "misinterpretations" we've seen in the past.

Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

I like jasons idea of having each class off a different week every month. We had some really long nights this year and it does wear on you once and a while. I think dropping 1 or 2 lowest point nights would be too confusing for the people keeping score. They have a hard enough time keeping up as it is. Running 3 weeks a month would allow the track to be open all year.
I also would like to stick with the 890s. I only used 2 sets this year and I thought they held up pretty good. My idea for over competive cars was to add 50lbs after 3 wins or maybe after back to back wins. A complete tear down would work too. Whatever we can collectively agree on Im all for, as long as we do something. I would like to use some kind of handicapping system but lets use it to line up heats. Then the top 4 or 5 qualify in the heat and we line the features up based on that. I think if we had done this some of those headachs on the first lap would have been avoided. Maybe just invert the order from the previous race for the heats. Just throwing that out there, I havent really thought it through.

P.S. This topic is a little one sided. Where are the ford guys?

i like the idea of having a week off once a month and bringing in another class to fill in the 4th class on each night. we all get a week off a month and the fans still get to see 4 classes each week. if they did that i would suggest bringing in the IMCA modifieds. there are so many of them around and ais would be the only asphalt track around for them to try. let them run the imca rules with our SS tires and i think it would be a great show to see the dirt guys on a hard tire on a slick track. another idea, i ran at SL2 the week they opened up the rules to let SS's run with the street stocks and they make every class run a transponder. it would eliminate all the bs about where people should restart. i only made it to a few races last season but that always seemed to be the big issue when i was there. the only class i didnt hear complaining about restart positions was the LM's, why? they have transponders. that i think is a no brainer. sl2 would rent them for $25 a week or you could buy your own. what would you rather do, spend $200 or live with a 6 month long headache. it also wouldent hurt to raise the payout (i know, my head is in the clouds) but my dad made paul furious when he told him that SL2 payed us $200 for a 10th place finish and they want to keep the rules open there for next year and all we had to do is weigh 3250 to run our ss against their street stocks. i am probably not going to run at ais next year but i hate to see such a great track lose its fans and competitors like it has. i hope my suggestions will help out. if they do. i might just show up a few times.