North Country Race Talk

Flagman,

Good questions. Although I've never seen a definition of an "overly competitive" driver,I'll do my best to explain what I think it is. In my mind, an overly competitive driver is one from outward appearance seems to be much faster than the rest of the field and repeatedly wins. Racers being competitive by nature, also seem to be poor losers. So many are quick to "assume" anyone that repeatedly wins "must be cheating." Winning races can and is done legally by teams that have done their homework in setting up their car within the class rules and have a skillful driver. The team that has all four tires working equally to stick to the track has the best car to potentially win races. There are an infinite number of variable that can change that balance and it's the "smarter" team that can anticipate changes in those variable to consistently run in the front of the pack. Championships are won by consistency on the track. There have been champions at AIS that never won a feature, but they work hard on their cars every week to avoid equipment failures, drive skillfully to avoid wrecks, and finish every race.

That being said, to keep those front runners legal and quell any concerns about cheating, there needs to be a system to confirm the legality of the car with regard to the rules. Otherwise, during the season (as you seen proof on this forum), you'll hear those who are frustrated with their own performance throw accusations out that the winner is cheating.

Earlier on I mentioned a rule another track published that warned any car winning 3 races was "subject" to a complete tear down. Admittedly, those who are winning races don't want this possibility hanging over their head because they assume their engine will be torn down to the nuts and bolts. Actually, I think it should be just a complete "inspection." Like Tommy posted, there are several tests you can do on an engine to check the legality before you have to do a complete tear down. There are also many visual inspections of the body, chassis, running gear, etc. that just are never checked during the course of the frantic post race tech inspection. As far as the expense, I think it's just a part of racing. If you're taking the winning purse home repeatedly, you need to be accountable.

Historically, adding weight to overly competitive cars hasn't slowed them down, but has satisfied many of the complainers. A smart competitor will put the weight where it best helps the overall weight distribution and balance of the car. I'll take a heavy well balanced car any day over a light unbalanced car.

Hopefully this helps,

Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

steve,thanks for the info sounds real good,but the 3 race wins would they be in a row or not? how much weight would be added? who would judge the amount of the tear down,from complete or like tommy posted ? just some questins to kept out the gray gremlens.

Let's keep in mind that it's not just the drivers who get frustrated with over competetive cars. The fans don't like to see the same driver win every week either. Let's define an overly competetive car or truck. But we must revisit the truck class to do that. For those of you who weren't at the Renegade fall race, you can watch it on the steve weed video web site. The #22 truck was about to lap the 2nd place truck right before a late caution flag flew. Not even Tommy Cloce has ever come close to lapping the 2nd place late model in a race. That 2nd place truck had already beat that #22 truck earlier this year, so it seems odd that the 22 would have lapped the 7 truck if the race stayed green. It's a show for the fans, and the fans have spoken countless times about over competetive cars and trucks. There are many people out there who hated seeing Jimmie Johnson win 3 championships in a row, and working on #4, and he's not even cheating to get it done. In my opinion, a great season would be a different winner each week. You never know who will win a sport compact race until the race is nearly over. There were only 3 late models that could win a race (four if the #4s raced), maybe 3 super stocks, and 3 trucks. There were other surprise winners this year but they were far and few between, and it was because the faster cars or trucks had a bad night. I think the 2008 Nascar season was the most boring to watch in the last decade because 3 drivers split about 30 wins last year (Johnson, Kyle Busch, and Edwards). This year has been much more interesting because there has been more winners in victory lane.

I don't have a solution for over competetive cars. No matter what is decided, it will only work if the standards are enforced equally across the board for EVERY driver and car/truck. There cannot be any favoritism involved.

Just my opinion. Have a great weekend everyone.

Todd - You make a good point about fan frustration, too. I don't think anyone begrudges a team for winning when you've got at least some other teams that are equal as far as performance. It makes for a more interesting show for all.

Flagman - First I think you need a good, concise set of class rules to work from. Once those are in place, then an equally as good set of General Track Rules that cover the very questions you're asking about. Then it's critical that the rules be enforced, period.

Now I haven't even looked at the General Rules yet. I was waiting to see the response I got from posting the Super Stock Rules first, to see if there was interest to pursue those. Until then, I'll give you my ideas on your specific questions:
"but the 3 race wins would they be in a row or not?" - The rules I was quoting were if the races were won in a row.
"how much weight would be added?" - In my opinion, I don't think that's the way to do it, but more research would need to be done before and if that is part of the solution.
"who would judge the amount of the tear down,from complete or like tommy posted ?" - In my opinion, the car should be locked in the new tech garage after it's race. At the end of the events, the tech team and two car team members only are allowed in the tech garage. No other curious eyes. The tech team goes down the rule list and checks what they feel is a complete tech inspection. (Personally, the harder a time the race team gave me the more I'd dig - usually don't the loudest complainers have the most to hide???) When the tech team is satisfied that the car is completely legal the team is good to go or if anything is found along the way, the inspection stops and the team is DQ'd. Again, just my opinion.

Again, hope this is helpful.

Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

steve ,i vote that you take over the track and everyone would be happy.the rules would be clear and tech would be fair,racing would be fun again and do not say no just think it over thanks for your time,it is more than i ever got from paul.

Flagman,

Wow, you said it perfectly. It should be our motto;

CLEAR RULES, FAIR TECH, FUN RACING!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, too. I will help in any capacity I am physically and mentally capable of during the off season, but during race season I have way too much fun driving and harassing all my friends at the track. Not a good formula for "taking over" anything! Don't worry, we'll all get through this. Even if we have to meet every Saturday night to race in the Lowville Producers Cheese Store parking lot!!!! I can see it know, winner gets their picture taken holding the checker flag on the cow and win cheese instead of money!

Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

I love cheese !! and a ride on the cow would bring back memories of my childhood. We had this old cow we called satch that we would climb up on and collect all the others to take to the barn. ah the good old day's !!!

P&G, Whistle, inspection of suspension and frame??? After winning 3 in a row? If there was weekly TECH of the top 5 this would already be done and the winner of 3 in a row could get a pat on the back for doing his homework and driving his A$$ off! Anyone see where this is going.......WE NEED TECH! not roll across the scales and good to go!