North Country Race Talk

one part of the rules that needs a good look at is the formal and non formal protest ! that is where the whole problem came from in the truck class.

PLEASE !! lets not get back on that subject here but I say the protest rule should be very plain, If someone files a protest it should just be a protest plain and simple - no formal or non formal just a protest !!!!!! if found illegal then its illegal - end of story.

as for some of the rules I mentioned earlier - I just wanted to allow a couple things that I feel should be because of this class now being super stock - a step higher than true stock therefore a little more performance use. I myself still believe some light wieght parts are being used. (just my opinions and thought ) no bashing going on here !! I say scott made some good statments and I would just ask that those items get looked at. like flywheels for example, my stock flywheel is so heavy I can hardly lift it and my motor revs up so slow compared to others. maybe a little lighter than stock but not crazy like scott said no aluminum, no 5 or 7in. whatever the little ones are. steel stock diameter, something like that. my cheap intake I bought and cost me a motor I had to add wieght for just because I dont have much money. things like that is all I was looking for.
I wont push it any further. I am going to try to find a gm intake this winter anyway so I dont ruin another motor.

I know ( blah blah blah blah !!! everyone enjoy your winter ! I will put up a post if we will be snocross racing this winter so maybe some of you guys can come watch. I haven't found a ride for my son yet though.

dont want to hijack a thread but we should all go to the thunder alley board and make some noise about getting the dirt off that perfectly good racetrack

I dont know if the slanting the rules thing was directed at me for what i said about clutches in my earlier post, I dont have a lite weight clutch in my car, i dont think it would make much of a difference on the track we run on since you are never really out of the throttle, I was just saying we all know their out there , you can buy them that look stock so why fight with that one ? if we just allow stock appearing clutches its just one less thing to worry about, I really dont care one way or another , as for 5.1 i think it should read ....... 5.1. Frame Construction – Frame must be straight, sound, and complete. No cutting, chopping, shortening, or lowering of the frame is allowed. Unibody cars must have front and rear clip (or equivalent rear clip in original location) and may be connected to front clip for extra support. Wheel base must not be shorter than OEM wheel base for make and model of car.Front clips must retain stock OEM weight , dimensions and suspension mounting points.

With 5.1 written this way it would allow for the aftermarket stock replacment stubs to be used, its getting real hard to find straight rust free clips with all the crushing that went on with high scrap prices

Well steve, I have to say that the devil himself would be hosting the NHL finals in hell before I would de-tune my engine back to 350 hp and let the dum dum's at ais seal it up for me. I suppose it really doesn't matter anyway because i cannot manage to make a full 20 revolutions around that circus without someone burying their car into the side of mine. What the hell steve, why didn't you take a stab at my car anyway? Even ramos couldn't resist LOL!!! He's probably going to whip my a$* for that one.

HEY TOMMY . WHEN DID THEY GET THE INTERNET UP ON THE HILL?

What are you saying Scott? You mean you would like to be able to buy a front clip from lefthander (example) and weld it onto your car? That is 100% legal because they use stock front clips, they just add the jack bolts and sand blast them. Correct me if im wrong?

7.1 Must use OEM Stock Steel external clutch. That rule is one of the few clear ones that is there. Obviously a LUK, or Borg Warner from the parts store is allowed.

7.2 Must use OEM stock steel flywheel with starter ring. No lightweight, altered, or modified drive train parts or fasteners are allowed. Must be bolted to and turn positive with the crankshaft. Aftermarket Steel flywheels are permitted being that they maintain a minimum weight of 30(example) pounds. I think mine weighs around 35 lbs. Using a weight around 30 would give the dedicated and knowledgeable guys a chance to have an advantage being that there are lighter OEM ones out there they are just hard to come by. Anyone have a weight for an average Chevy flywheel?

A section about torque converters should be added also to clear up any confusion

We should also state either A Rear windows are permitted but must remain clear (safety and looks better) my opinion...they r mandatory at shangri la
or B Rear windows are not allowed Black and White no gray areas

I didnt look at lefthander , what i was refering to is the johnson chassis metric replacement clip, matches stock weight and suspension points , it uses the same tech guages as the stock metric oem stub, howe offers one for fords

I didnt see ford clips on HOWE, but that doesnt matter. I see where you are coming from but your best bet and the best thing for the rules is going to be to buy from lefthander or howe a cleaned/reworked OEM stub. From what i see with the johnson chassis, although stock weight and mounting points it is a tubular front clip. You know as well as I do that will open a whole new can of worms and SOMEONE will show up with a late model chassis and say "Well he has it and he is allowed to run". $650 you have a clip, weld it on purple passion and your ready to race! Im not trying to argue the fact Scott but im sure you can see where Im coming from. I woudl hate to see you buy a nice OEM weight tubular clip and weld it all on and get told halfway through teh season that you cant run...It has happened that way at AIS before....Anyone have the link to thunder Alley's forum?
Again...just my 2 cents

That might be what I will end up doing, cant find a usable clip in a junkyard, or maybe I will cut the car up for scrap and finish my latemodel, I can race that anywhere

Gentlemen,

Thank you, this is the sensible discussion we need to help all of us. Keep it up.

Gunner - I agree with the Protest thing, but remind me when we thrash the General Rules. As for the lighter parts, just for the sake of simplicity for now, would you be OK with the stock stuff to get started (I had the same problem - fixed it by changing rearend gear ratio - but paid at the top end!)

Scott - I wasn't directing the slant of the rules at anyone. Just wanted to make sure we were fair between GM-Ford-Chrysler. As far as clips - just bought a whole Monte for a little more than that clip price. Has an excellent frame. Good ones aren't as easy to find, but they are out there, especially if you don't mind traveling. So again, maybe for the sake of simplicity now, let’s keep the fabricated clips in the Late Model class.

Mike - Let's make sure it's obvious, because it wasn't to me with the original wording. "Obviously a LUK, or Borg Warner from the parts store is allowed.” So how about;

7.1 Must use OEM Stock Steel external clutch. Replacements meeting OEM Stock specifications permitted.
7.2. Flywheel/Flexplate – Must use OEM stock steel flywheel with starter ring. Replacements meeting OEM Stock specifications permitted. Must be bolted to and turn positive with the crankshaft. No aluminum, altered, or modified drive train parts or fasteners are allowed.

I believe that knocks out all the clutches and flywheels that are designed for racing only, which are definitely designed as a performance edge. I think putting limitations on size and weight would take all the fun out of doing your research to find the best stock combination for your engine/transmission combination. If I wanted to run a V6, I found an OEM Stock 8” clutch and 15 lb. OEM Stock flywheel!!! Awesome!!!

The torque converter issue; in the revised 7.3……. Automatic transmissions must have a torque converter meeting OEM specifications for that transmission…..
Will that take care of the TC issue?

As far as the rear windows; I agree, let’s make it black and white. I also agree they look prettier with windows. Personally, I’m on the fence, but if pushed I’d say from a cost perspective, no back window.

Now to Tommy; Wow, I don’t blame you for not wanting to tame that fire breather. Last I knew, we’re lucky to get 320 ponies out of a crate with a 2 bbl. That must be why all the other tracks let their crate cars shed 150+ pounds and run 4 bbl’s. That’s why I didn’t run into you – I couldn’t catch you. Besides, after all the damage I caused on your car to wreck last year from that Rooster Tail of fuel I was leaving when my fuel cap went on a journey of its own, I figured I’ve caused enough trouble for a few years in advance. Is the hockey game going to be televised?
Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

Steve Rob tried to DQ jason cause he had a 10" convertr so did I and I think Ben did to the came stock in Vegas back in the day it's an old drag racer trick!! So i think we would have to state a size on the torque converters... whats everyone think about that?

Josh

Mike,here is the link to the Canam site,you can get to the Thunder forum from there.http://canamracing.proboards.com/index.cgi?

Josh,
I got this second hand so don't take it as gospel. The TC was suspect because it appeared to have been modified post production but wasn't. It was the way a major parts chain's rebuilder overhauled the TC's. Maybe Jason can enlighten us.

But using the 2010 rules, if it can be shown to be unaltered and to have been used with that transmission, it's legal.

The point is, if you think you've got a trick item that is legal, save yourself and tech some time and bring documentation to prove your case.

Steve Burton, AIS SS #10

i had an afermarket 10" in my car and rob sad they had to be 12" but it doesn't say that in the rules?? thats why I was always up front was cause of that TC I was runnng!!! LOL

When you send a TC out they cut it in half redo the inner workings and seal it back up right? Correct me if I'm wrong but you could send a 12" TC out have the curve changed and it would be as good as a 10" right? that would be undetectable by normal tech... I say state a size TC and run with it and see what happens?

I think we should have the brake bias adj. inside the cockpit also..

What about allowing some kind of rev limiters?